This month, I was honored and grateful to interview three Certified Narrative Enneagram Professionals representing the first three decades of the 21st Century. Leslie Hershberger from Cincinnati, OH, Patrick Kayrooz from Sydney, Australia, and Logan Jones from Richmond, VA all began their Enneagram journey through a spiritual lens and a desire to help others on their respective journeys.

I’ve had the pleasure of connecting with each of them during my own Enneagram journey, and they’ve each made a difference in my own life and the world through their teachings, coaching, and spiritual direction. All three draw on the solid foundation of The Narrative Enneagram’s 37 years of teaching and sharing the transformative power of doing the work, to bring a deeper, more profound awareness, understanding, and compassion for themselves and others.

Leslie Hershberger

Certified Narrative Enneagram Teacher in 2002

Leslie began her Enneagram journey in 1998, and former Narrative Enneagram Registrar Tracy Colina quickly recommended Helen and David as exceptional teachers and trainers. Since then, she’s been weaving together her passions for theological studies and Enneagram training.

Leslie’s academic education focused on deep spiritual dimensions, particularly Christianity and Buddhism. She pursued Narrative Enneagram certification concurrent with earning a Master’s degree in Theology. A few years later, she inspired me to embark on my own Enneagram certification journey!

Exploring meditation and the Enneagram led her to start teaching alternative ways of looking at Christianity. She began offering meditation, contemplation, and centering prayers as a bridge between external religion and internal spirituality.

Since 2004, Leslie has been teaching courses, facilitating groups, and coaching individuals in Cincinnati. As part of this work, she built a successful business practice helping corporations utilize the inherent benefits of their work teams gaining a deeper understanding of themselves and their colleagues using the Enneagram system.

In 2015, she decided to return to her spiritual work and now offers a comprehensive online Enneagram curriculum, as well as classes and coaching for the second half of life. Over the years, Leslie actively participated in The Narrative Enneagram board work and conferences, as well as serving on The International Enneagram Association Board of Directors.

As a Social Type 7, Leslie is passionate about making a difference in others’ lives through courses focused on contemplative practices and addressing themes such as illness, identity loss, and aging. She continues to emphasize the importance of incorporating inner practices and meditation in her teachings. 

Leslie has remained an active participant in the Narrative Enneagram community over the past two decades, and we discussed The Narrative Enneagram’s evolution as a non-profit to preserve the content and materials from Helen and David. She appreciates the ongoing evolution of the curriculum and teaching materials as an essential movement forward.

Patrick Kayrooz

Certified Narrative Enneagram Teacher in 2013

Patrick‘s Enneagram journey began when he was eighteen and his spiritual director introduced it to him when he was studying to become a Catholic priest. He ultimately chose not to be ordained and began exploring the Enneagram with deep curiosity and a spirit of inquiry.

He was drawn to The Narrative Enneagram after reading a Helen Palmer book. His journey from initial fascination led to a sabbatical from work to travel from Australia to Menlo Park, CA to formalize his knowledge. We completed part of our certification together in 2012 and shared a passion for learning and becoming certified teachers to share our knowledge and continue our own personal growth journeys.

We discussed the power of narrative storytelling in spiritual and educational contexts, emphasizing its ability to engage and transform individuals beyond mere didactic learning. Patrick believes the narrative method honors the humanizing approach to engage and inspire. 

His teaching certification, passion, and curiosity led to a collaboration with David Daniel’s daughter, Denise, and the publication of The WID Factor – Why I Do What I Do in 2016. This groundbreaking book, “provides a process for personal transformation. It will help you recognize the qualities in both your reactive self and your responding self so that you may find and walk your path of purpose in life.”

Patrick has built a successful Enneagram training business using his WID model. What started as a remarkable book has evolved into a powerful tool for personal growth and self-discovery. Its effectiveness is in helping people understand their inner drivers and energies.

As someone who leads with Type 4, Patrick shared his journey of feeling misunderstood as a young adult and how discovering the Enneagram transformed his understanding of himself and others. Patrick appreciates the non-accusatory language for discussing differences and fostering authentic connections.

Patrick served on the Board of Directors and as president of The International Enneagram Association for several years. He’s inspired and pleased that The Narrative Enneagram continues to evolve its training curriculum and embrace diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging. He hopes it will expand its reach to include more diverse populations.

He was particularly enthused about the integration of this system with the milestone reached in mindfulness and scientific research when Dr. Dan Siegel and his PDP Group published Personality and Wholeness in Therapy in November 2024. This remarkable book was a collaborative effort by David and Denise Daniels, Laura Baker, and Jack Killen. Patrick feels that this book effectively captures the importance of making neurobiological knowledge applicable to human conditions.

Logan Jones

Certified Narrative Enneagram Practitioner in 2023

Logan is a professional musician, Enneagram coach, and spiritual director. Now residing in Richmond, VA, Logan grew up in Austria before moving to the United States to pursue a university education. His first exposure to the Enneagram was at a conference in 2012, which featured Rev. Richard Rohr.

Inspired by the objective source for self-observation and personal growth, Logan continued his journey of learning more about the Enneagram while earning his professional coaching certification, spiritual director training, and practitioner certification.

He credits his experience with The Narrative Enneagram as having a significant impact on his self-confidence and professional growth and development. His experience with his fellow cohort alums has been particularly enriching. Logan and his cohort meet monthly on Zoom. Those gatherings serve as a valuable resource for continued collaboration and growth.

A majority of Logan’s professional work is devoted to music, Enneagram coaching, and spiritual direction; however, he also brings the Enneagram to corporations. Many workplace environments encourage employees to excel by using their strengths yet often lose sight of the power of stepping back, centering themselves, and observing their reactivity.

I was interested in how Logan views the differences in approach when working with business professionals versus individuals seeking spiritual growth. His strategy is to keep an open and adaptable style while anchoring in the conversation for the context.

Logan also emphasized the importance of maintaining a balance between being grounded and open during the process of offering Enneagram typing interviews. He practices centering prayer and meditation before every interview to stay focused and confident even in challenging situations.

He’s grateful to Core Faculty members Christopher Copland and Chichi Agorom for their contributions to developing follow-up questions and DEIB considerations that are now integral to The Narrative Enneagram’s typing curriculum.

I met Logan last year when he was providing tech support for a Narrative Enneagram event, and we quickly built a bond as fellow Type 2s. As one of our Zoom hosts, you’re likely to meet Logan if you attend one of our Foundational Courses or other online programs!

It was a delightful and enriching experience to interview each of these outstanding Enneagram professionals. As Narrative Enneagram co-founders Helen Palmer and David Daniels often related, awakening to ourselves is an inside job. Though the work doesn’t end there! Community connection also plays a significant role in supporting our individual journeys of growth.

If you’re interested in exploring the spiritual dimensions of the Enneagram I invite you to join us for our Community Gathering on August 21 or our upcoming 4-week workshop Welcoming Wholeness on Tuesdays September 9-30.

Contributed by:  William (Bill) Reed

Bill is a Certified Narrative Enneagram Teacher and serves on the TNE Board of Directors. He owns a management consulting firm, Enneagram Chicago.  Bill incorporates the Enneagram as an instrumental tool for transformative opportunities for businesses, groups, and individuals seeking greater self-awareness, a deeper understanding of others, and learning the tools to improve and enhance open and effective communication skills. Bill also provides professional typing services for The Enneagram Group with clients from around the world.